Transcript of CFRN-FM Public Affairs Broadcast (6:00 P.M.), Edmonton Wednesday, November 29, 1989 Garnett Lewis, CFRN News Since they were first confronted by Government census takers 50 years ago, the Lubicons in northwestern Alberta have been asking for a land settlement. That process came to a head last year when the Lubicons blockaded land they claim is theirs. It may reach the boiling point again this week with the Natives threatening to shut down oil activity. I spoke with Band advisor Fred Lennarson about the continuing stalemate. Fred Lennarson, Lubicon Advisor The Federal Government tabled a surprise "take-it-or-leave-it" offer in January which did not provide anything. It made no provision at all for the Lubicons to build an independent economy. Basically what it provided is houses, roads, water and a sewer. It didn't provide community facilities like a community hall and Band office, it didn't provide commercial enterprises like a little community store, and it provided nothing to develop reserve lands for agricultural purposes. The Federal Government then immediately started on an international propaganda campaign designed to discredit the Lubicon people. So they tabled an offer which in my judgement wasn't a serious offer in the first place. They knew it would be rejected. And then they immediately launched an obviously pre-prepared political campaign. So the real issue was what the Federal Government was seeking to accomplish with that. I think what was happening was that the Feds came to see the Lubicons as serving as an inspiration to other aboriginal people to stand up and demand recognition of their rights. The Lubicon people were also serving as the focus of attention internationally on the plight of aboriginal people in Canada. The Federal Government had tried to use these negotiations as a backdrop for discrediting the Lubicon people, so they don't play either of these roles. Lewis I suppose a lot of people who are outsiders who look upon this and see the $42 million offer -- they think, gee whiz, that's a lot of money. What is it that the Lubicons want? Certainly they could perhaps buy whatever they wanted with that $42 million. Lennarson First, it's not $42 million. The Federal Government says it's $45 million, which it isn't either. It is full of sections -- for example, regarding the construction of a health unit, which is budgeted at $350,000 and both sides agree it will cost that --the offer reads: Preliminary information indicates that money may be available from Federal Health and Welfare and we recommend that the Lubicons go talk to Health and Welfare. Well, that's not an offer of a health unit. With regards to the commercial developments that I mentioned it says that the "Federal Government is prepared to seek Ministerial approval in principle" for going to the Native Economic Development Fund for up to $4 million on the condition that the Lubicon proposals meet normal program requirements. Well Mr. Lewis, every Canadian in the country can apply to the Government for these various Government programs. But it's not an offer and everybody knows these Government programs are an endless disaster. So the offer is not an offer of $42 million or $45 million either one. It's full of the kind of clauses and sections which I've just described to you, and then the whole thing is covered by a full and final release. So they were asking the Lubicon people to give up their land rights in exchange for these kinds of suggestions that if they apply to Government they might get money to do the things that they need to re-build their shattered economy. It's not $45 million. That's just a deliberate effort to deceive the Canadian public by the Government of Canada. Anybody that reads the offer can see what's wrong with it. Lewis Mr. Lennarson, tell me what difference it would mean to the Lubicons to have this land claim settled. What differences would it bring to the lives of the people living near Little Buffalo? Lennarson I think it would give them hope that they had something to try and re-build their economy and pull their families together, and that they'd have some hope for a future. The current Federal offer, and that's the problem with it, really just offered the Lubicon people government-provided houses in which to live on government-provided welfare for the rest of their lives. It's kind of like animals in the zoo, cared for and fed by the Government of Canada. That's not a future which they're prepared to accept for themselves and their children. Lewis We know that the Lubicons, of course, have threatened or have warned that they're going to shut down oil activity on land that they claim as their own by this Friday. That's the deadline anyway. What's going to happen this weekend? What will be the result of all of this, do you think? Lennarson First, the Lubicon people have been a little more precise in the position they've taken. What they've said is that they expect Federally-owned Crown corporation Petro Canada to respect Lubicon jurisdiction and take out appropriate permits and leases from the Lubicon people and pay appropriate royalties to the Lubicon people, or that Petro Canada installations will be subject to removal as unauthorized developments in unceded Lubicon land. They've also said the same thing with regard to projects in which Petro Canada has an interest, primarily with Norcen. Norcen and Petro Canada have a number of joint projects. What has happened so far is that Petro Canada has indicated that they're going to close down their wells and an announcement is expected from Norcen today that they are shutting-in the wells that they own jointly with Petro Canada as well. So hopefully that will buy a little bit of time. Norcen asked the Lubicons if their wells would be subject to removal if they were shut-in and the Lubicons said no. They were concerned only to stop continued extraction of resources from their land by a Federal Government which was at the same time frustrating settlement. Lewis And not paying royalties on that energy as well, I guess. Lennarson That's right. Although I think more important than the royalties, although royalties are a part of this, is the whole question of jurisdiction. The Lubicon people say they've never ceded their land to anybody in any historically or legally recognized way. They never sold it. They never lost it in war. They never signed a treaty with the Government. It remains theirs unless and until there is some negotiated settlement. That being the case, all of these development projects undermine their claim to the area. And they are seeking to enforce their jurisdiction, just as Canada would or any sovereign nation would. Lewis Doesn't the Government though claim that the Lubicons are actually part of a larger Nation that signed the treaty? Lennarson No. They might now. They claim different things at different points. Historically, Mr. Lewis, the Government of Canada didn't send representatives into that area until 1939, at which time they recognized that these were a separate and distinct group of people with land rights and that they should have land rights. They never did it. On and off since, they have either recognized them as a separate and distinct group of people or they said they belonged to other Indian Nations that did sign treaty or they've said all kinds of things. I think certainly if one looks at what's being said most recently, the Government recognizes that these are a separate and distinct group of people. I might just refer for a moment back to that Federal Government offer which they wanted the Lubicon people to sign. That offer includes a several page release that they want the Lubicon people to adhere to Treaty 8. They wouldn't have to adhere to it if they'd ever signed it. And secondly to cede their aboriginal rights to the Government of Canada, and if they'd already ceded them, that wouldn't be necessary either. Lewis Mr. Lennarson, how do you respond to some of the claims that what you're doing and what the Band's lawyer are doing is merely trying to make some sort of political gain, that all of this is part of a huge game of political in-fighting to in some way discredit the Federal Government? Lennarson I'm offended by it. Why would anybody spend the time and effort to discredit a Federal Government which discredits itself daily by their actions. The Lubicon people face terrible problems. Their babies are being born dead, prematurely. They've suffered a tuberculosis epidemic. Their families are falling apart. They have terrible, horrific problems. Their economy's been destroyed. I think that we all have a stake in this kind of thing happening in Canada. Lewis Fred Lennarson says the next step is up to the oil companies and the Federal Government. He won't say what might happen in northwestern Alberta this weekend. -------------------------------------------------------------- For more information contact web:car by e-mail or in writing Aboriginal Rights Support Group Committee Against Racism P.O. Box 3085, Station B Calgary, Alberta T2M 4L6